Interview with a racist
For the past few weeks I have been in talks not only with the subject of this interview but with myself as well, I have had some reservations about this interview, not least the reluctance to give a platform to someone with very far right views, but as the person I am interviewing is adamant that they don't want to be named, I thought I could use the opportunity to get an insight into the mind of a self proclaimed racist.
"I prefer Pro white, but Racist doesn't bother me."
This interview took place over a Skype call, because neither one of us really wanted the other in their home, I was expecting Gary ( we'll call him Gary to protect his true identity) to be cagey, and argumentative, but as you will see, he was surprisingly frank and forth coming with his answers.
"You talk like a white man and act like a white man, the problem I have is people trying to make England into a version of where they originally come from"
Me:
First of all I want to thank you for taking the time to talk to me, especially being as you don't know me that well, because honestly an interview like this could cause a major headache for you if I was to publicly out you.
Gary:
Yeah it could do, but I have seen some of the things you have written before, and I liked what I saw so
Me:
Well thank you I appreciate that. So would you describe yourself as a racist?
Gary:
Um.....Yeah, I probably do, I prefer Pro white, but Racist doesn't bother me.
Me:
So do you think that white people are so superior to say black people
Gary:
I don't think of it in that way, I'm not saying that the white man is better than the black man, I just feel that England is a white country, and that we are being made to feel like foreigners in our own country.
Me:
So I have lived here all my life, do you still think of me as a foreigner?
Gary:
You talk like a white man and act like a white man, the problem I have is people trying to make England into a version of where they originally come from, The country has been changing, just look at all the crime in London, when you see these fights happening with knives and machetes its always gangs of black and Pakistani lads.
Me:
Do you think all of the crime is centred around ethnic minorities then?
Gary:
just look at the statistics, black kids get arrested more than white kids everywhere, if they weren't committing crime they wouldn't be arrested would they?
Me:
But you have said something interesting right there, surely the fact that black kids get arrested more than white kids, means that there is a bias in the police force, why else would they stop and search black kids at a higher rate than white kids?
Gary:
Probably because they find drugs and knives when they search black kids, you go after the ones who are doing the crimes.
Me:
Not really, if you look at the outcomes of stop and searches you will find that most end in no further action, that says to me that the rates of stop and search are unjustifiably weighted towards black people.
Gary:
well we will have to agree to disagree on that then.
Me:
OK.
What is your earliest memory of ethnic minorities? Did your parents have a dislike of black and Asian people?
Gary:
Like I said, I don't hate black or Pakistani people, I just think if you are going to come to this country you should act like the rest of us, I don't see why someone not born here should be able to bring their culture here and ram it down our throats, we speak English here, I don't see why Indians should be able to talk in there own language to each other when they can speak English perfectly well, its rude, and they're only doing it so they can talk about white people.
Me:
I hear that a lot, but if you go to Spain do you speak in Spanish even when speaking to another English person?
Gary:
On holiday it's different, if I take the family to Spain for two weeks there's no need to learn Spanish, they speak English there because its good for their businesses, but if you live in someone else's country, the least you can do is learn the language.
Me:
On the subject of living abroad, you told me that you voted remain because you have family members living in an EU country, that surprised me, how come you went that way and not full on Brexiter?
Gary:
Brexit was a shambles, we knew that the EU would get fucked off and take it out on English ex-pats, and we also knew that it would be the Polish that would have to leave, it did nothing to stop the Albanians or Iraqi's coming over for freebies.
Me:
so you were happy for the Polish to be here? What's the difference between Polish people and say someone escaping Syria?
Gary:
The Polls came here to work, that's what you need, people who come and want to graft, but what we see is fighting age men coming over from Syria and places like that, its never women it's just boats full of men, at least with the Polish in 20-30 years their kids are going to be English like the rest of us are English.
Me:
you mean white.
Gary:
Yeah, it means the country ain't going to look different, it's still going to be a white country, the Polls are Christians too, and this is a white Christian country.
Me:
So with that in mind, how do you feel having a Prime minister who is Asian, does that bother you even though he's a conservative?
Gary:
I don't like him, I don't like any of them (I think he meant Braverman, Patel and Other conservatives of colour) there are more of em coming into the country since they have been in charge and that ain't a coincidence.
I liked Boris Johnson, he said it like it is, I think he should still be Prime minister, its got worse since he left.
Me:
Do you think Boris was racist?
Gary:
I think he had the best interests of the country in mind.
Me:
But do you think he”s racist?
Gary:
I don't know him so I can't say, but I do know he was willing to stand up for people like me.
Me:
Did you vote for him?
Gary:
yeah I did, the conservatives are a better option for us as a country than labour, they are too busy trying to get people from all over the place to live here to sort out the problems we have, If labour get in they will flood the country with god knows who.
Me:
If you had the choice, would you have a conservative government or say a UKIP government?
Gary:
UKIP could have never run the country, I have been part of loads of movements, and UKIP were the worst, it's just a bunch of posh old people who are playing at politics, I would rather have the BNP to be honest, at least you knew what they were really about.
Me:
How did you become part of these groups?
Gary:
I started back in about 1993, I joined the BNP because a load of my mates from football were into it, and when I got a banned from (redacted at Gary's request) football ground, it got a bit on top going for a row because I was known to the police, so going on rallies and having it off with the anti racist groups was a good old laugh.
Me:
so kicking someone's head in was a bit of a laugh?
Gary:
Most of the other side were hooligans as well. That's what people don't want to tell you, these anti-fa people are in it for the fighting just like the rest of us, most of them don't even care about the cause, they just want a fight.
Me: so anti racist football hooligans join anti-fa, and racist ones join racist groups?
Gary:
sometimes, but I have seen people on the anti side who are racist as fuck, like I said, for a lot of them its just a day out and a laugh.
Me:
You're surprisingly honest about how you feel, a lot of people with the same views normally hide being racist, it seems to be important to you why is that?
Gary:
It's not that it's important to me, I don't go around shouting that I'm a racist, it only takes one complaint to my gaffa and I'm unemployed, I just don't lie about it, There are plenty of people on social media that are deeply racist that jump through hoops to try and appear not racist, I'm not one of them.
Me:
Like who?
Gary:
nice try, I'm not saying.
Me:
But there are “Dog Whistles” that people use aren't there, you know phrases that are used that go unnoticed that mean “I'm in the club” do you pick up on a lot of those?
Gary:
yeah, but its all pretty pointless, I think if you believe something then that's your choice, believe it, and don't let people tell you you're wrong, this cancel culture bollocks just makes people not want to engage with the debate we should be having because they're scared that they are going to get in trouble, that's not free speech, were being policed by anyone with a grudge and a twitter account, it only takes one person to not like what you said and you, your family, and sometimes your friends, all have to suffer just because the wokerati got offended.
Me:
But it could be said that if you don't say things that are offensive, there's no chance of getting in trouble, and everyone is happy.
Gary:
But that's like saying never share an opinion and we will be alright?
Me:
Sharing opinions is fine, its the spread of hate that most people have a problem with.
Gary:
Yeah but I know people who have lost their jobs after being grassed on for their political views, One lad had an 8 month old baby, and he lost his job and can never work in that profession again just because he shared some jokes on Facebook.
Me:
But had he not shared them he would have been alright.
Gary:
But that goes against his freedom of speech, he gets the sack for sharing something on his own Facebook page, yet nothing happens when people are saying that the police that killed George Floyd should be hung, and that to me is much worse than what my mate did.
Me:
was it worse than what the police did to George Floyd?
Gary:
He wasn't just some random bloke who the police picked on, he was a druggie who was trying to buy stuff with dodgy money, that's what people forget, if the blacks didn't get in trouble they wouldn't get stopped by the police, or killed either.
Me:
Do you not see the comparison between what you said about cancel culture, and black peoples interactions with the police?
Gary:
It's not the same though is it, my mate did wrong and admitted he done wrong, but when blacks are resisting arrest, they have to know that they could die.
Me:
Time is pushing on, but I would like to ask you one last question before you go because I know you're busy today, Is there anything that could change your mind about minorities, and what do you think that would be?
Gary:
I don't think there is anything that will change my mind, it would make life easier for them if they just played by the rules and acted more like us, there's too many places that white people can't go to now, too many Mosques, there are so many now they have even started to convert churches into Mosques, they need to stop trying to make Britain something its not, we drink beer we eat pork, and have Christmas here, so if you don't like it don't come here.
Me;
Thank you for you're time
Gary:
Nice one.
Throughout the interview, I had to remain curious, I didn't want to get into an argument about right and wrong, I just wanted to understand what it is that makes people racist, and I'm still not sure that I fully understand, I myself used to hold some racist views as a teenager, but those just disapeared when I had conversations with people, so what is it that makes a grown man hold on to this rhetoric?
I think its fear, its a fear of being treated the way minorities are treated, I think that's why people who hold racist views think the way they do, they don't want to be the person who doesn't understand the language, the customs, or the world around them, and that unfounded fear only exists because of the racism that has been pushed on people for generations, keeping yourself separate from other racial groups doesn't help at all, because only by understanding those around us, can we have any chance of being a united world.
I have taken a lot away from this interview, I wasn't sure if I could do it to start with, but I had to do it, I have seen many interviews with people who have reformed after holding racist views, but I never see interviews with someone who is openly racist, and has no qualms about admitting it, and if someone can learn something from this then that is great, we need more honest conversations about this stuff, but the key word is honest, we can't continue to fight racism without first understanding what racism really is, and for that to happen we need to talk to those who hold racist views, it's only by understanding that we can finally be rid of it.
Photo by Life Matters: https://www.pexels.com/photo/woman-holding-a-sign-at-a-protest-4613901/
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